Sunday, July 24, 2011

A Saudi Friend Reacts to the Oslo Bombing

Two women are seen leaving as rescue workers arrive to evacuate the injured at the site of a powerful explosion that rocked central Oslo July 22, 2011. Thomas Winje/Reuters

Below is an email I received of a chat sent by a Saudi friend in reaction to the Oslo bombing. It was sent on the day of the bombing, before the perpetrator was known or arrested, and when the main topic was the likelihood of the "twin attacks" being co-ordinated attacks by Al-Qaeda, and Al-Qaeda-like in their method and amplitude. Even the debris in Oslo was described as "just like that of the twin towers on 9/11". My response follows, and I look forward to your comments.

These messages were sent while you were offline.


15:27 fuck this shit
  a bomb goes off somewhere and then all the racist kooks of europe put their nazi helmets on n start attacking muslims
  complete and utter bullshit
15:28 now everyone will start acting like their life has been affected
15:30 when in reality everytime a bomb goes off somewhere it's muslims worldwide that have to put a hand on their heart n think about what consequences such an act of stupidity done by whomever (muslim or not) will yield upon them
  I hope the asshole behind this (muslim or not) dies
  I hope he/she/they suffer
15:31 they don't have a clue how much worse they've made the lives of other people
  especially immigrants
  the amount of bullshit in this world is just wooh over the top
15:32 still somehow somehow despite europe's attitudes towards immigrants n foreign labour
  they still somehow manage to play a saint n show emirates as bad guys
15:33 as if they haven't done any exploitation themselves
  sugarcoating assholes
  just a note
  if some bomb god forbid goes off somewhere in canada
15:34 n it's indeed a muslim asshole
  before you start cussing out n before your emotions get out of control
15:35 just remember how many people are out there whose lives are gonna get even shittier because of it
  -_-Damn!
15:37 come to think of it there was an explosion that happened in canada not too long ago n once it happened people went nutso n started throwing stones at mosques n what not...and then news flash! it wasn't the muslims
15:38 that'd be like everytime a black guy dies somewhere
  people pointing their fingers at europe

Chiara 00:24

Every time a bomb goes off I pray it wasn't Muslims who did it--for the exact reasons you gave.

The Oslo bomb went off the same day as the 1945 Irgun bombing of the King David Hotel, including the British military post there when the Zionists were trying to establish Israel. The leader was Menachem Begin, later Prime Minister, and Nobel Peace Prize winner. That is the topic of my latest post.

I would love to do a post entitled A Saudi Friend Reacts to the Oslo Bombing and then quote your chat without saying anything more about who you are. Let me know if it would be okay. I will let you see the final draft before posting it for your approval if you agree. Of course I won't do it, if you don't want me to, but you very eloquently went through the exact issues to be addressed, and did it with sincerity and passion.

*My sincere thanks to my Saudi friend who prefers to remain anonymous, but who so graciously agreed to share this chat with Chez Chiara readers. 

Smoke pours from a building in the centre of Oslo, Friday, July 22, 2011, following an explosion that tore open several buildings including the prime minister's office, shattering windows and covering the street with documents.(AP / Thomas Winje Oijord, Scanpix, Norway)

20 comments:

Abu Abdullah said...

The Times of India was insinuating that this was done by Muslims.

Check this out...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/europe/Islamist-militant-attacks-in-Europe/articleshow/9326888.cms

And if you google and read the first few comments which came in as the story was developing, you could clearly see that muslims were being blamed.

And even after it was established that it was Blonde White Right Wing Extremist, people were commenting away guessing that he "could be a muslim convert"

I would blame the law enforcement and the media partly for this attack, as they had assumed that only muslims could do terrorism and thus they let people like Anders slip through...

I have been often advocating that Terrorism must be handled dispassionately without associating any specific profiles such as religion, race, etc... but human mind is very feeble.

Gladly though the terrorism from muslims targeted towards the west is very much negligible now...

And i don't this is the end of such right wing extremism. if you would look at the various youtube videos posted by this terrorist Anders, you would see that he has far more support and people actually praising this terrorist for this act...

Chiara said...

Abu Abdullah--Thank you for your comment, and welcome back! You make an number of excellent points about Europe needing to recognize the threat from its own right wing extremist parties, and the role of the media and law enforcement.

Terrorism is one tactic of asymmetrical warfare, and most terrorism in Europe is perpetrated by factions within a country against their own country's government.

Some articles on Breivik focus so exclusively on the "Islam/ Islamist/ Islamophobia issue that they fail to realize that his target was the elected party of his own country, the Labour Party, its PM, and the Labour Party annual youth camp. This is a major oversight or neglect of the primary aspect of terrorism from within a democracy.

I was especially struck by my Saudi friend's comment that now everyone will think their lives are affected. It struck a real chord with me because Canadian friends and colleagues still talk about 9/11 as if it had affected them in a directly personal way, such as losing a family member or close friend. In fact, they will then say something like "I know people in the airline industry" or "I knew right away who it was and that it was directed against us [Jews]".

I was also particularly struck by my Saudi friend's comments that Muslims are the most worried after such a bombing, and face a backlash even if they are far from the location and find it as reprehensible as anyone else. The Muslims within the country become the biggest potential target. As you point out, there has been considerable support for Breivik from within and without his country.

Thanks again for your comment!

I hope others will also share their responses to this reaction.

Wendy said...

Abu Abdullah, you can't blame people for making an assumption of where the attack came from. Every day we hear of another bomb attack somewhere in the name of Allah and especially in Pakistan these days.

As for support for the man who made the attack ...... how many times have we seen Muslims parading with joy about a Muslim attack somewhere?

All of it is terrible.

Countrygirl said...

@Chiara you said that "there has been considerable support for Breivik from within and without his country." can you enlight me who supported him for his terrible act? Nowhere i've found anyone who supported him....but if you call that 50% of Norvegian want less immigration a support for Breivik i call this guilt by association. I didn't see none parading with joy for this terrible act, i didn't see any blog (Spence, Gates of Vienna or Atlas Shrug) that you brand as "islamophobic" root for him (in you eyes they can be islamophobic but they NEVER called for violence)....the only thing in common is that they want less immigration. And do you wonder why 50% of Norvegians (as stated in a previous post) want less immigration? Since the open border began there is a ten fold incease of rapes where 95% of the times the victim is a "native norvegian woman" and the rapist is "an asian man/men"

Another thins your frine said "till somehow somehow despite europe's attitudes towards immigrants n foreign labour
they still somehow manage to play a saint n show emirates as bad guys" So if i understand him here in Europe we treat immigrant like S°°t and we paint emirates as bad guys for how they treat their immigrants....he was high on drugs when he wrote this?

Majed said...

When I heard that this man Breivik might have been inspired this horrible act by internet sites,I hurried to delete a facebook group of mine that I had created earlier, through which I used to condemn and attack a group of people in the occupied Palestine,and it was attracting increasing number of young people as fans,though my objective was to tell the young generation that they should know and always remember our enemy,I just, don't think I can live with the possibility of some idiot or naive peroson considering and taking my words as an excuse, permission and a license to hurt innocent people, I guess we should be careful about what we say and write.

But, I doubt that people can do such things without being under the effect of some drugs or under duress, like someone threating to kill their loved ones if they did not commit a suicide attack,just like the Tamil tigers, who used to force people do such attacks.

Countrygirl,
In Europe they do not treat the very few immigrants they have as bad as many immigrants are treated in the gulf countries, where immigrants make up to 70% of the population,I wonder what the Eruopean would if the case was as such.

Today no less Terror than the Oslo one,attacked me in my backyard my 7 years old son has broken his hand back in India my heart stopped working for few alhamduillah that was it.

Abu Abdullah said...

@Wendy
People and masses like you and me have the luxury of making opinions or assumptions.

But the news media is bound by the cardinal principle of reporting only verified facts and not assumptions or neither they can insinuate false news either.

Journalistic ethics is something take too lightly or has completely gone down the drain these days as we saw with fox and the news of the world.

Btw about your comment about Muslims being the sole flag bearers of terrorism did you check my old comment where I quoted the statistics from FBI, where about over 95% of the terrorists arrested for attempting or executing terrorist activities in Europe were Non Muslims with a myriad of causes??? But again the media is always in love with Muslims as the bad guys...

And about how many times Muslims paraded in joy? If you are referring to an isolated incident of palestinians doing it after 9/11 other than that I don't remember seeing any such incident. And yes i agree it is despicable to laugh at some ones misery and we have gone through this before. Agreed that Muslims have a few freaks and so do the christians, Jews or even buddhists or any one else for that matter. Just because Muslims have some freak characters doesn't mean that all Muslims deserve to be punished collectively.

The first thing we as mature individuals must mature to is the mentality of collective punishment for the actions of a few.


And what I still continue to hate is we are more often trying to justify and unjustify this whole issue about muslims vs. Christians, etc. And eventually it does seem that we are giving victory to terrorists like Anders by not addressing the hate. We are more preoccupied by seeing who deserves to be blamed for this. For example Pamela Geller has reported saying that Anders terrorism was a direct result of "Islamist Supremacy". If we continue this path of blame game eventually we would have more Anders and Osama's amongst us so the moot point is to address and eliminate the racists among us.

We must ensure that people and movements like Pam Geller, Geert Wilders, Pat Robertson, Anwar Al Awlaki, Tea party, Al Qaeda, etc. do not have a platform to produce terrorists like Osama or Anders. And along with that a responsible and a ethical news media is also required, enough of unethical fox, news international and daily mirror.

Some thing good about Muslim governments is that we are going after the bad guys amongst us and the bad guys amongst us no longer have refuge and are actively being hunted down. It's time the west realizes they have a extremism problem because of the racists among them and do something about it before more terrorists like Anders take more innocent lives.

Chiara said...

Countrygirl--thanks for your comment.

My Saudi friend uses no intoxicants but was reacting viscerally to the event and its implications.

I agree with you that one can be against immigration, and against the immigration of specific groups, without being racist or against a specific religion, and certainly the vast majority stop before advocating violence, or agreeing with this form of violence.

However, the sites that inspired Breivik and on which he commented are well known, and proud to be against Islam, Muslim immigration, and accommodation of Muslims in the USA. They are careful not to call for violence, but they incite others to do so and the comments on their posts reflect that. To my surprise Robert Spencer benefits from a religious tax credit for his "work".

I will address in another post the issues of US definitions of hate speech and the rise in Islamophobia, and harassment and violence against Muslims.


However, I think it is insufficiently addressed in the media that Breivik's violence was against Norwegians, not Norwegian immigrants, or Muslims, who belong to a centre-left party which was elected by the other ~50% of the Norwegian population, and with which he disagrees. He deems his actions as heinous but necessary.

The support for him came primarily on the comments on youtube videos of him and his beliefs, and was remarked on by a number of mainstream media.

I'm glad you highlighted the comment about the Emirates as my Saudi friend was concerned before the post went up that it might lead to misunderstanding. That comment in the chat is a direct response to a comment on one of the youtube videos that did attack how Muslims treat foreigners in their own countries, citing the example of the UAE, and was supportive of Breivik.

I would appreciate a link for the rape % claim, as it sounds off, to say the least, in the sense that statistics can be made to say anything and it is important to know the methodology used to come up with that one.

Thanks again for your comment!

Chiara said...

Wendy-thanks for your comment, which I somehow saw after reading Countrygirl's.

I think the issue is that most attacks in the West are not by Muslims.

I also think that those who are parading with joy are a minority of Muslims, but the ones who have political motivations and get the most media coverage.

Thanks again for your comment!

Chiara said...

Majed--thanks for your comment. I agree that there is a place for activism, but that activists must be careful that they are speaking clearly and if someone uses their words as inspiration for hate crimes or terrorism it is a clear misunderstanding and misuse. Breivik for example paraphrased philosopher John Stuart Mill in his single tweet preceding his actions,

I am very sorry your little boy has injured his foot, and I hope he heals very quickly--as 7 year olds do. Still it is a worry for a parent and for one working far from home.

Please check your email as I sent you an email a number of days ago. If you didn't get it let me know and I will re-send it.

Thanks again for your comment, and my prayers and thoughts are with your son, and your father's heart!

Chiara said...

Abu Abdullah-thanks for your second comment. You raised a number of good points, and I will be addressing some of them in an upcoming post (or 2 ;) ). Thanks again!

Abu Abdullah said...

Thanks Chiara for this excellent post as well...

Now continuing on the coverage, Glen Beck has gone on record on Fox saying the Victims of Norway Attack are like the "Hitler Youth"
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8660986/Glenn-Beck-compares-Norways-dead-teenagers-to-Hitler-youth.html)

It is rhetoric like this which creates Terrorists like Anders in the first place. And Glen Beck's statement could very well be construed as sympathizing with terrorism and yet no one seems to have a problem with it.

To me these lunatics like Glen Beck, Pam Geller, etc.. look like Anwar Al Awlaki and Fox News increasingly looks like the As Sahab Media (which was the mouth piece of Al Qaeda)

Atleast have some respect for the dead children!!!!

The Right wing rhetoric must definitely stop, they are now costing peoples lives. Freedom of Speech should not result in people loosing lives.

Countrygirl said...

I read and post sometimes (when i have something to say) on Atlas Shrug, Jihad Watch and Gates of Vienna but i never read anything that could incite violence...and granted sometimes some posters say let's deport all muslims but they are a tiny tiny minority....for sure you don't like Spencer as i said i regulary read his blog and i bought one of his books he simply doesn't like islam (i'm not a big fan either) but he NEVER said let's go and kill muslims and i never read anything similar in the comment section. Maybe in the nazi blogs/sites you can see some bloggers threating violence toward muslim. In the blogs i mentioned before everyone agree that Andres was a crazy lumatic killer.

As you said being against one religion doesn't make one racist (and how can somebody be a racist agaisnt muslims since they come from all colors?)

Anders is a lunatic who is described but too many media as a Christian but in his words he said that he isnt' a devoted one christian.



In the US (and in Canda i reckon) muslim immigration is slightly different the immigrants are more educated and tend to absord themselves in the US/Canada (with the exeptions maybe of recent immigrants from Somalia), in Europe it's different lots of muslim immigrants are poorly educated and tends to stay in their ghettos many of mosques here are founded by KSA (and wahabism). If you read what is happening in the UK and that a big % of young Uk muslims are for sharia or that they think is ok for terrorism act, same thing is happening in Sweden where many places in Malmo is a no go zone for muslim or in Holland where there is an increase of gay bashing where non western are the culprits.

Susanne said...

Interesting post and comments. I know my Syrian friend was thankful that it wasn't "Muslims" (so-called) because as he put it: "it would be awful to stir up trouble in yet another place, wouldn't it?"

Because when Al Qaeda does its crime even though the vast majority of Muslims don't identify with AQ at all, the average Muslim on the ground is the one who bears the brunt of disgust if the people around them are looking to be angry at someone.

Initially I thought of Al Qaeda because of the 2 attacks. I thought maybe they were showing the world they were still around despite bin Laden being killed.

I wasn't sure why they chose Norway, however.

Alas, I was wrong and it was a native guy who just went murderously crazy.

I've been reading since the attack about the rise of the right in Europe and how a common theme seems to be anti-immigration. I also recall a blog post about the disappearing white race so I wonder if these right wing people are seeing that and it's their attempt at saving their people.

But why then kill 70+ of your own people except for the fact these people were politically left and would theoretically be OK with more immigrants thus diluting the white people further. (It's weird trying to think like them and see how they justify killing for the sake of preserving their own kind.)

It's odd because maybe Norway wouldn't need immigrants if they had children to take the jobs that need filling. Actually I don't know Norway's stats, but I have heard of much of Europe's problems with low birth rate and how Germany, for instance, doesn't have enough native Germans to keep Germany going. Or they won't in coming years and is why they offer basically free education for immigrants who come there for degrees. (I know several Syrians currently in Germany getting Master's degrees and planning to work there.)

Not sure where I'm going with this..just trying to sort things in my mind and figure out what motivates people to do such crazy things besides evil.


By the way, I am part of a Muslim Feminists group on Facebook and one lady posted a group wanting us to "Like." I guess she thought we all were Muslims who would like the message, but it was basically how Islam will take over the world. My friend who runs Muslim Feminists is super-tolerant and not that way AT ALL so she didn't say anything, but I did. I told her how that wasnt' good news for everyone. (Usually I hear this type of fearmongering warning from anti-Islam people, but this was from a bonafide Muslim woman so ...)

And I think it's messages like these that feed Anders types. By essentially telling us non-Muslims, Islam is coming, we are breeding faster than you white people, Allah's truth is taking over...and it just makes some people resort to really awful things as a way of fighting back.

So maybe less of this type of message from Muslims so it won't stoke the fires of nutjobs like Anders. Don't give them more fuel to get people on their sides.

Most Muslims are not like this, but it only takes a few. Just as it does with Anders types as we can all see.

OK, I think I've written more here than I have combined in a while. Sorry for my ramble.

Wendy said...

Abu Abdullah - I guess I should have made myself more clear. I was not referring to attacks just in the west but what we are seeing in Pakistan and the horror of Bahrain with Sunni against Shia and so on. Yes, we had the Catholic/Protestant issue in Ireland and other issues but it seems that Islam is quite violent and especially among themselves. With the rise of fundamentalism in ME countries there is less tolerance for non-Muslims and moderate Muslims using Sudan as just one example.I do agree that Muslims are not the sole flag bearers of terrorism.

Majed said...

Susanne,

The bonafide muslim woman who posted,about how islam is going to take over the world,was for sure a common woman whose words should not be a cause disquiettude and alarm.

While the words of peopl such as the Pope John are, rember when he boldly stated in 1999 during his visit to India that “just as in the first millennium the Cross was planted on the soil of Europe, and in the second on that of the Americas and Africa, we can pray that in the Third Christian Millennium a great harvest of faith will be reaped in this vast and vital continent.” meaningly all of Asia ignoring that christianity is an asian religion in the first place and it reached India much before most of those hardcore eropean Chirstian countries,but we did not see asians reacting so awfully to the pobe calling them to their faces that they are infidals and faithless peopl.

The bigger the mouth words are issuing from the more their power is intensified and boosted,those people should be careful when talk.

Majed said...

What creates problems to immigrants in any given host society,I guess is the fact that most immigrants naturally do resort to clustering together,though their intention in doing that is initially to preserve and protect their language,religion,tranditions so they can pass it on to their children,which is a way to be keep trace to their roots, and it is also in the mean time a natural technique to gradually explore and open up to the new environment in order to mitigate the culture shock ,but unfortunately this is usually perceived and considered by the host as sense of superiority and contempt of the majority.
With time most immigrants do fit in with the main stream to some extent,though the degree of fitting of immigrants depends on the mixing tendency of people which differs from high to moderate to poor depending on the race,national pride,flexibility of religious views,how much command they have on hosting country 's language and friendliness and willingness of the host to embrace them,I guess Asians and african are best hosts.

from my experience I think people from Hadramout are the best guest and best mixers, anywhere they go people recive them very well,In indonesia they are indonesians, in Malaysia they are Malaysian, in Africa they Africans,they get readily assimilated into different cultures as if it was their migration is their eternal curse and also their passion,but they always remember home.

oby said...

Majed....

I am not really clear on what you are saying about that muslim woman...sorry.

Are you saying she is representative of most muslims thoughts about islam taking over the world vis a vis the words of the Pope saying what he said about Christianity? Do most Muslims think that Islam is/should take over the world?

While the Pope has his opinions of things I don't believe he represents the feelings of most Christians about it(Christianity) being spread all over...I am not sure he even represents the feelings of most Catholics of which he is the head of that church. For the most part, IMO particularly in Europe, the majority of Christians are not concerned with propagating the faith and I don't think most Christians have that high on their list. I think their much greater concern is that they just want their societies to remain as they like them. Similar to any other society (even Muslim ones-I think that is human nature) OF COURSE there are those who would love nothing better than to propagate Christianity all over but I just don't see that as a huge priority of the average Christian. Otherwise Christians would be concerned with much larger families and the birthrates are falling not growing. Muslim birthrates are falling as well, but not as quickly as nonmuslim.

Could you expound?

oby said...

majed...

sorry but I didn't go down far enough and read your last post.

Majed said...

Oby,

" ...(COMMON)woman whose words should not be a cause disquiettude and alarm"

Soryy it was a mistake,I should have used the word insignificant or nobody instead of(common)but a brainy like you must have deduce that from the context,because if that woman represented the mindset of the mjority of muslims,then it would really have been a cause for alarm.
But anyway thank you for drawing my attention to the inconsistency of my comment.

Jay Kactuz said...

Chiara, I just wanted to post an apology here for my comments last week suggesting that the Norway terror was the work of Muslims (that was the posting you deleted my comments and I am not sure if you even deleted that false accusation).

I hope nobody thinks that all the terror or evil in this world is due to Islam and Muslims. I certainly do not. I made the comment after it was reported that some jihadi group had proclaimed responsibility and then I sent off camping for the weekend.

As you may have noticed, I have a problem with Islam, but I also have no problem saying that 'I am wrong' when I am wrong. Just wanted to say that I regret insinuating in that post that that vile act was linked to Islam and Muslims.

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